OK. Pace of play. We all know it's an issue, right? There's lots to be said on the subject and I hope to address it in depth in the coming weeks.
But for now here's a personal pace of play predicament we encountered this weekend and I'd love to hear your take on it:
Nick and I played golf with my twin sister Cat, on an ultra crowded course yesterday - it was June 1st, a Sunday and the weather was perfect, so we weren't at all surprised by the throngs. The foursome in front of us were waiting at the first tee when we arrived. It was about 10 minutes before they could tee off due to a log jam of golfers that had already formed. While we were waiting our turn, a group of four
Well we started our round with a couple of great drives and one pathetic worm burner (never mind who was responsible for that). As we proceeded there were several occasions where we needed to stop and wait for the group in front of us, as they had had to wait for the group in front of them.
Not the perfect way to play but pretty much inevitable if you're playing on a relatively inexpensive public course on a perfect summer day. You just arm yourself with patience... and a beer or two...then you enjoy the gorgeous day and your less than perfect golf round.
Well the fearsome foursome behind us didn't seem to see it this way, and at each of the next tees, where they naturally encountered us waiting, a different one approached, grilling us about our tee time. At the third tee, I responded by suggesting that they might want to just go ahead and play through. Their initial response was a kind of self righteous superiority, but when they looked up and saw the foursome in front of us just a couple of hundred yards ahead, searching for an errant ball, the awkward realization finally set in that they'd be playing no faster ahead of us than behind. However, they did play through, and just avoided our glance when we joined them at the next tee, and the next, and the next.
So here's my predicament, while Cat and I were totally cool with the way this story turned out, Nick was not. He thought it was ridiculous for the men to be pestering us (which it was) AND he thought it was ridiculous for me to let them play through, because they would simply encounter what we had encountered and nothing about the pace would change. And it's true that the pace did not change, however I enjoyed the rest of the round, with a relaxed foursome of cigar smoking Sunday golfers behind us, far more than those first couple of holes with the speedy traditionalist on our tail.
Now here's what I want to know: is this just a gender thing?
I'm pretty sure most men would react the way Nick did and be angry for the remainder of the round at my having let the feisty four play through - while most women would be like Cat and I, and just be happy to get rid of the curmudgeons and enjoy our Sunday game. Are men and women really from Mars and Venus when it comes to keeping up the pace on a crowded Sunday course?
yes, mars and venus applies.
ReplyDeletequestion though, it doesn't sound like nick is a wallflower by any means and probably a decent golfer. why didn't he get in their faces a bit before you suggested they play thru?
I don't think you should have let them play through. My wife is a second year golfer and last week she told a group of guys in front of her that were playing slow "That if you are going to suck at least suck fast!" I thought that might be the most insightful thing I have heard on the golf course in a long time.
ReplyDeleteAnon - Actually you're totally right Nick isn't a wallflower and did get in their faces. In fact I suggested the play-through partly to diffuse what was quickly becoming a volatile situation and I knew Nick would never verbally abuse me in public. He did in private though. d:o0
ReplyDeletejd - Your wife would appear to have far more testicular fortitude than I do. Good 4 her...I'm working on that. d:o)
Sorry you had to put up with that, yipes. Luckily, that sort of bad attitude, in my experience, is rarely encountered out on the course.
ReplyDeleteThough I'm not a good golfer, I actually play at a good pace even when walking. Even then, I get paranoid about groups behind me sometimes... if the groups ahead are backed up, there is always a part of me that worries that I'll get the blame even if it is obvious I'm not the cause. Especially when playing with my husband, who is a little slower, if it is possible we'll let groups play through so he won't have as much pressure on him. It was probably for the best to let them play through; you were in the right, but why deal with that pressure if it can be avoided? Of course, my opinion is the $.02 of someone who is probably way too passive, but it does seem in general we women are more willing to accommodate and try to keep others happy in that kind of conflict.
Occasionally I'll find myself annoyed by extremely slow groups in front of me, but it is something you have to put in perspective-- at least I'm out playing, and usually am in no rush. IMO, these guys have an attitude problem that will in the end only eat them up and ruin their own enjoyment of things. Sounds like they might have had some misogyny issues, as well.
At least when I last looked the rules of golf said something like
ReplyDeletePriority on the Course
2 ball matches have priority over 3 ball matches, 3 ball matches have priority over 4 ball matches. Single players by themselves have no standing on the course.
Given that you were only 3 and they were 4, this was really not on.
The harassment also seems totally out of line.
I'm not sure if it was a private or public course, but if it was a members club I might have let them through under protest, but then I would probably had a quiet word with the club captain after the round.
Thomas
Keep up the super blog...
Both right. OK to get in their faces IMHO. I'm world class at that. OK to let them through so they can feel stupid when it doesn't speed things up.
ReplyDeleteSolution! A competent marshall that handles these situations and frequently prevents them from happening. I've BEGGED my course owner to pay a marshall all the time. He does it on a spotty basis. A good marshall means faster play and more rounds! $$$ They more than pay for themselves.
I played at gorgeous little course in Vermont on a crowded Sunday. It was taking longer than 9th grade math because of the group right in front of us. The marshall came over, sized up the situation, and made them skip a hole. I think they were happy, it helped their scores.
I'd have let 'em thru and told 'em that if they couldn't stay out of my way, I'd be hitting into them.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'd tell them the only reason I wanted them to go thru was so I could pester the hell out of them on every tee box.
Of course the fact that I'm 6'2" and 250 means that I get pestered very few times.
Slow play isn't gender specific, but there are plenty of male players that think it is. If you're keeping pace with the group ahead, then you've done your duty. The course ranger needs to be more diligent in finding the backups and getting the clogs moving. I can see letting them play through just to diffuse the situation and not let things get uncomfortable, but they had no right to act that way.
ReplyDeleteGolf should be relaxing and if there are crumudgens behind you then I say let them try to play faster than you.
ReplyDeleteThis is the second story like this I heard from this past weekend and it just annoys me. My buddy played at Casperkill and there was a foursome who started on the back nine who tried to cut in front of them on the first tee even though two of my buddy's foursome had already teed off. The police were almost called in when the jerks kept hitting into my friends foursome. People like this should be banned.
I can completely relate to why you encouraged those curmudgeons to play through. Who want a group of angry guys behind you when you're enjoying a relaxing round on a day when, in any case, you can't play quickly. I would have done the same thing ... and my husband would have hated it. Generally, I think guys are more confrontational and more territorial by nature.
ReplyDeleteI'd probably been a little irritated if my wife had let them play through, especially if we were waiting on the people in front of us. Of Course, whats the worse situation, angry dudes behind you badgering you every two minutes and your wife and sister flustered because they are doing it or swallowing your pride and getting rid of all your worries? I say sit back, grab yer stogie and enjoy the round, and if the situation dictates, aim your ball at the biggest guy in their group :)
ReplyDeleteEven though I wouldn't have let them through, I think you handled it just fine... I hope they realized what asses they were when you joined them on every tee afterwards. Personally, I can't believe they played through, even with the invitation!
ReplyDeleteTwo things- 1) If these guys could see that you can't go anywhere and would rather not come and watch you and your twin at every other tee box or so, and get to watch you from behind, I suspect they are gay.
ReplyDelete2) I agree with you and your sis in letting them go through. I can see where Nick would be mad, but in the end, I would think that if they are the least bit irritating, it is worth the extra 8-10 minutes at the end of your round just to not deal with any more crap from them after #3. Maybe I would have asked them a few times though if they couldn't hurry along.
At my club we have a bunch of new Asian members, and the men are slow as molassas, but when their wives play, they are speedy, speedy, speedy. I play a 3 hour round walking by myself, and I had a group of three of the Asian wives bump into me the other day.
it's a tough one. by letting the guys go thru you diffused the situation which is good - but - it also empowers guys like that to do it again to someone else.
ReplyDeletesadly, it created a problem for gg and nick. here is how i see it - gg and nick were protecting each other in this situation because they care enough about each other (and sis) to try to do something to prevent a bad outcome. it got all crazy and in the end was not good for anyone.
bottom line - you should chalk this one up to experience and both take the long view - you were both trying to help each other out- however, "venus and mars" collided. so kiss and make up and don't let these assholes cause you more grief. it sounds like you guys have a very good marriage - so this issue is just a learning experience to make you a stronger couple.
my fee for this session: 1 cigar (cuban) and 1 pair of fancy golf shoes for my wife!
Hey cat here. Regardless it was a great day of golf, wasn’t it! Defusing golf rage is just necessary from time to time. Indeed I believe one should try to take pleasure in the occasionally unavoidable down time in golf on a beautiful Sunday, Hey we really enjoyed giving those curmudgeons their earned nick names, Blue Blob, and Gerry Atrick are two that come to mind, & when one of their remote controlled golf carts ended up in the bunker…priceless! Seriously, coming in and getting all that gratitude from the starter for letting “those @$$ ‘s “(his words!) play through made it was obvious that foursome was a habitual nuisance. In the end I think Nick even enjoyed the drama. Here’s to many more sunny Sunday golf games this summer!
ReplyDeletexoxo
This is my hot button subject. My wife and I play fast. We can finish 18 in 2.5 hours if we don't have to wait. I personally think pace of play is one issue that is hurting golf. Who can afford 5 - 6 hours to play?? I always say you can play bad, but still play fast. If each person in a foursome cut 15 seconds off of their pace of play per hole that would be 18 minutes saved per round. Play ready golf, hit your ball first then help your partner find their ball, take your putter with you when you are close to the green. These are just a few of the things that can be done to speed up play.
ReplyDeleteI agree when men get behind women, their first thought is, 'Great!! This will take forever.', but in reality, most men are slower than women on the course and they really have no reason to complain about women and slow play.
I hate slow play and it mostly comes from young hackers who think becasue one time they hit a 270 yard drive down hill with a trailing wind on a very dry course they have to wait until the group ahead of them is 400 yards away before they can hit. I play in a weekly golf league with about 15 of these types and it ends uptaking close to 3 hours to play nine holes. If I lose the group ahed of me I let the group byhind me play through however if there is no where to go there is no reason to let anyone through.
ReplyDeleteYou handled it very graciously, which is what golf is all about. Pace of play is not gender-related. At our club, where we have many women golfers of all abilities, pace of play reflects not how well you play, but how conscientiously you play. It is only one aspect of golf etiquette, such as repairing divots, ball marks, proper bunker raking, disposing of broken tees, etc., which make up the full golf experience and frankly is sadly not taught nor practiced as much as it should be.
ReplyDeleteAre you asking if, in general, women are more willing to do whatever is necessary to avoid a confrontation that would make them "uncomfortable" ? Is there really any doubt of that ?
ReplyDeleteWhile I am bothered by the continued feminization of our country, where right and wrong are becoming more and more blurred because of emotion and relativistic "thinking" - I do think that women CAN be better, or at least more willing to pick their battles than men.
Those guys let their prejudice of seeing to "chicks" in a group ahead of them that they ignored the overall pace of the golf course. Pretty dumb on their part.
Hhmmmm - TWIN sister ?? And what was that about thongs ?? Oh wait, you said THRONGS ! :-)
I'm going w/ the gender difference, Golfgirl...David says No, he would NOT let them play through. He would have (and has) told foursomes behind us, "We're not going anyplace, and we have to wait for the group in front of us." He also asked about the ranger. It's his job to move people along. Where was the ranger?? But for me, my afternoon of couples golf is all about enjoyment, fresh air and fun. I would have let the group behind go through, simply to up the enjoyment quotient on the round. ~Nikki @17fairway
ReplyDeleteNick was right, you get jerks like the foursome behind you on every course. I maintain that before you can scuba dive you have to attend classes. The same should apply for jerk golfers who need to know golf etiquette before they step on a golf course.
ReplyDeleteI think there is an important part of the story missing here and that is how these guys treated the foursome that was initially in front of you. If they were treated the same (and they were also men), then this was not a gender issue.
ReplyDeleteYou did fine though because in the end you had a more patient foursome behind you for the remainder of the round.
I would have told them to realize that the course is jammed, you are keeping up with the group in front, and if they need something to occupy their time while they wait they should go fondle their balls.
Love your blog! I am a female and no i NEVER would have let them play through!! Firstly, it slowed your day down even more because you had to wait for them to play through. But my motivation would have been more the point of things: They couldn't go anywhere, it was slow day - if they didn't like it then go to some private club. I would have replied to them that our tee-time was the same as the last time they asked. As a woman on the course, i would have felt that it was important to stand my ground with these losers. I'm in Nick's corner on this one.
ReplyDeleteit would depend on the type of shorts they where wearing. taylored let them play through cargo. no way
ReplyDeletelove the blog keep up the great work
I wouldn't have let them play through, but sadly, I'm sure I would have let them get to me and distract me from my game and enjoyment of the day. Of course, even if someone else let them play through, I would have been annoyed by them anyway. In front of me or behind me, I can't help but feel irritated by jerkoffs. Letting them play through and get their way even though they had to eat some crow would have added to my irritation. It would have been an exercise in focus, for sure.
ReplyDeleteIf I'm bothered either way, why not stand on principle and not let them through? Don't know if that's how Nick felt but if so, maybe it's not a gender thing.
Pace of play is not gender specific when the course is full lol. However in your case- I would have been surprised to see how "good" those guys were. I play in an amateur tour and also leisure- and guys like to keep up pace (which we should), but sometimes the ppl that want to move fast are the guys that suck. I am good enuf where I can walk and still out pace the guys riding in their carts lol. Golf takes time and should be enjoyable- and I am firmly convicned (unless u can see 2-3 holes on the course) that a traffic jam (7 out of 10 times) is usually not the group directly in front of you.
ReplyDeleteWhen I go out with the girls they are really slow and the boys are quite annoying, hitting up on us. We always try and go as fast as possible but sometimes because we don't hit the ball so far, we are slower. A bit of consideration would be good.
ReplyDeleteKiwi - since you know and admit that you are slower than the group(s) behind you - then you are supposed to let the faster groups go through. It's not just being polite, it's in the rule book.
ReplyDelete(but if those guys are hitting into you, it would be a real shame if one or two of their balls "accidentally" got stepped on or rolled over, or somehow ricocheted into the woods) :-)
The guys who drive me nuts are the ones who hit a 250 yard drive on a 550 yard par five, then wait for the green to clear thinking they can hit a 3 wood the remaining 300 yards - then they can top their three wood about 75 yards or hit it into the woods 180 yards up and can't get to the green in 4. (that's when you start looking for the ARMED marshalls)
Guys who complain about tee times and waits should tee up first thing in the morning on a public course or join a country club. Waiting is a fact of life on a public course in the summer.
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